REASONS! ON FIREDUPTHURSDAYS
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REASONS! ON FIREDUPTHURSDAYS
Healthy Relationships Do Not Avoid Conflict
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We pick up “How to fight well” with a hard truth: never arguing can mean you’re healthy, or it can mean you’re avoiding, people-pleasing, and building resentment. We break down what toxic conflict looks like, what healthy conflict sounds like, and how to build the kind of safety that makes honesty possible.
• why “we never fight” can be healthy, avoidant, or people-pleasing
• what the Gottman research says about lasting relationships
• how unspoken expectations create bait-and-switch dynamics
• the unhealthy patterns that wreck arguments: attacks, contempt, sarcasm, stonewalling, no repair
• the shift from fighting to problem-solving as a team
• how to call a timeout when your body signals escalation
• when silence crosses into punishment and what it can mean
• practical steps to build safety: start small, name needs early, listen without defending
Would you guys let us know what you guys think about that takeaway of what we just uh expressed just now. Uh hit us in the comments, subscribe. We need y'all to subscribe, you know, comment, like, all that stuff when you see us on social media, Facebook, and follow us.
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Welcome Back And Part Two Recap
SPEAKER_00What's up? What's up? What's up? We're back with another episode of Reasons, y'all. How to fight well, part two. Because last week was so good, we had to do it again. All right? And you just didn't get enough information. So we're gonna this it's your boy Fuel in the house. It's your boy Fuel. And we got my girl over here, you know, Coach G's doing her thing, you know what I'm saying? Yo, yo, yo, yo. So check it out. Check it out. All right. So Coach G's gonna recap with us on what we talked about last week to kind of get y'all caught up so y'all can get in on the conversation this week. Y'all feel me? All right, let's go, let's go. All right. All right, so Coach G, let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
SPEAKER_01What are we waiting for? Okay, well, first of all, if you didn't listen to last week, you should, because it'll make more sense in the order that we recorded as opposed to it's a two-parter, so part one first is better. But either way, you can listen today and go back and listen to um last week would be great. Okay, so last week we talked about how there's people that you meet, you may have been one of them. Um you may know people who say we never fight.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And how that might not actually be helpful. True.
SPEAKER_00Oh, happy, help. Healthy, right. I say true, but happy.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01It might not be true, too. That's possible too. Right. Um, and that there's three reasons why we might fall into that category of not fighting. The first one being um an actual good reason is that it's healthy. We actually know how to communicate and we don't need to fight, right?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01That's probably the most rare, right? Um, the second reason being that um we are avoiding potentially, we're avoiding having conversations that are uncomfortable. Um, we don't want to, you know, have conflict. Right. So we just don't fight. Right. And the third might be that you're more of a people pleaser and you want to just lean into just making sure everybody's happy and good and life is lovely. So so we talked about that last week. This week we're gonna talk about how to build safety instead of relying on that silence.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So, okay. Are we good so far?
SPEAKER_00Uh, yeah, I'm following. Do y'all follow? I'm following. Are you tracking? Are you tracking?
SPEAKER_01Are you tracking?
The Gottman Love Lab Findings
SPEAKER_01Okay. So the first thing I want to talk about is um, you know, we talk about the Gottman and the Gottman method. And I know a couple weeks ago you're like, what are you talking about, Glenda? And I said, Okay, the Gottmans, John, John and Julia Gottman have been studying couples and what makes relationships last and what makes relationships fall apart for like 40 plus years.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01They created um, way back in the day, something called the Love Lab. And the Love Lab measured micro expressions on people's faces. So they put them basically in an apartment and, you know, watched them as they argued, as they got along, as they didn't get along. And they watched like micro expressions, they watched heart rate, breathing, um, cortisol levels, and all of these types of things. And over many years of studying and research, they've narrowed down what makes relationships relationships last, okay, and which ones are most likely to fall apart. Okay. Okay. And so some of what we're gonna um lean on today is about their findings. All right, okay, all right, so there we go. That's in another, and isn't that cool name? The love lab.
SPEAKER_00The love lab. Yeah, yeah. I used to work in here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That was a different love lab. That was a different lab. Yeah. Oh my god. Okay. So what Gottman's discovered was the the relationships that um were the healthiest and that um you know carried on were not necessarily the ones that never fought. That it isn't about the fighting, it's about how you fight and how you repair, right? So um, and we've talked about repairing before. So this is kind of a different angle, a recap, if you will. Um, so one of the things that we want to do is we want to be able to have obviously peaceful conversations about what might be bothering us early on, but that's not always the easiest thing to do because of the things that we talked about. One, people aren't vulnerable and don't want to share what's really on their mind, or you know, makes them uncomfortable, or they don't want to share their emotions.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01The other might be from the people-pleasing standpoint, or they don't want to have um be in a conflict of any kind, so they just don't say anything, they don't ruffle any feathers, right? So those could be reasons why we don't talk at all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But when we think about that, um not saying what your truth is or what's really bothering you and what have you means that you're not showing up as your real self. So the relationship you have is not a stable one. And at some point, resentment might kick in and you know, and so on and so forth. So, my first question for fuel is always you know, have you been in a relationship where you feel like either you didn't say what your truth was because you didn't want to ruffle any feathers, right, or somebody else didn't say what their truth was, or you kind of just push things under the carpet because we don't want to create any chaos, because that's uncomfortable. And how did that you know, what was the end result of that?
SPEAKER_00My experience is um most of the time, I don't think that uh the person that I was with or dating express their truth. I don't think they express, you know, uh uh what they really want. Sometimes they're it, you know, they they would give, but have an alternative motive to, you know, and expect something
When Expectations Stay Unspoken
SPEAKER_00as opposed to discussing or talking about it, you know what I mean? So uh myself, I've never, I don't think I've ever had any alternative motive as opposed to what I've already told to, you know, told you or talked to you about or whatever, or hide anything to the point where I think it's gonna ruffle a feather to you know end the relationship or anything like that. Uh but I've had uh situations where yes, they've you know come into a relationship or whatever, and maybe make me feel like that, you know, they're there for me or or down for me type of thing or whatever, but then have an alternative motive or whatever because they feel like you know, now that I've done this for you, you have to do this for me.
SPEAKER_01But it could be something don't we need real examples here? No, we don't, no, we need like details. I don't have no details.
SPEAKER_00I always need the details. I don't have no real details. That's where the dirt is. Um juicy stuff is in the details. Um, I mean, okay, say for instance, you know, when I when I moved to Minneapolis, um, and one of my friends, he can he can vouch to this, I had uh a young lady that, you know, was down in the music business. So she was she had my back, you know, she was uh, you know, putting up uh uh uh our uh trips or whatever, paying, you know, for our trips or whatever, and you know, just kind of supporting or whatever that we were doing. And um, but I think her her main goal after you know I was said and done, her main goal was to keep me in this box. You know what I mean? I mean, it was kind of like, you know, you know, so I I did this for you, so I need to know and do, you know, everything, every move you make, every such and such or whatever, you know, trying to keep me in a box or whatever, you know, and making me feel smothered. You know what I'm saying? So, so by her doing that or whatever, which came after, you know, uh uh being supportive of what I'm doing because she knows that's what I wanted, that's what I liked, or whatever the case may be, then, you know, she threw this in there to the payment, like, hey, like, you know, now you owe me type of thing, you know, which I think is the worst thing that you can do within, you know, in a relationship or trying to build a relationship. I mean, you have to be up front, you know what I'm saying? As to, you know, you just can't throw something at somebody and be like, oh, I'm gonna be okay with it, when you probably know I probably won't be. You know what I mean? You know I'm not gonna be okay with it, but you're gonna feel like you're gonna try to make me feel guilty into doing it because you did such and such a for me type of thing.
SPEAKER_01So, what do you think the the breakdown was there for you guys? Was it not communicating expectations? Was it not telling her truth?
SPEAKER_00You no, that's that's it, not communicating expectation. You know what I mean? Uh, because I mean, if if I basically communicated the things that I needed, I wanted, then you should have done the same, you know. So don't say, oh yeah, yeah, okay, I'm that I got your back. I'm this, this, and that. You know, but this this is what I want too. You know, I I I want us to be this or be that or or or have a baby or you know, or whatever, you know, growing up because we was young, you know what I'm saying? I want to be married, or you know what I'm saying? I want us to be together to the point where you know we're in our future, we got kids. This, you know, that wasn't a conversation, you know? And so when you force that onto someone that that has no idea or clue that you're uh thinking that way brings up a controversial conversation, you know. So sure, that's basically, you know, that's that's my that's been my experience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So would you say you guys fought a lot or no? And what did that look like?
SPEAKER_00I don't like the fight, so I don't I didn't fight yet.
SPEAKER_01So I don't wait a minute, that's on here somewhere.
SPEAKER_00Uh I don't, I I don't like the fight, so I didn't, you know, it's kind of like I shut down.
SPEAKER_01You shut down.
SPEAKER_00I basically shut down. And when I shut down, it's kind of like I let God, you know, just let it take its course of fading out because you're on a different, we're on different pages, and I don't want to argue, you know, I don't want to fight about it because I've been honest up front as well as she should have been, you know, and when you're not honest up front as to what it is that you want, you know, then you know you can't blame me for you know feeling the way I feel, you know? Yeah, it's different if you, you know, if you basically put it on the line, hey, yeah, I got you on this or whatever, but you need to, you know, I need you to do this. You know what I mean? And then I have to agree at that point in time. Or if I didn't agree, then you don't do whatever that you say you wanted to do for him. You know, you feel what I'm saying? Yep, yeah, you know?
SPEAKER_01So did it feel kind of like you know, bait and switch kind of situation? Like I thought it was all this, but then it really wasn't that. It was sh there was a different in her mind, different, she had different plans.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right? Um, so how when you guys finally got to the point where you were talking about what her now what her expectations were, how did that how did that shake out? Like, did you just pack your duffel bag and walk out the door or like what happened there?
SPEAKER_00First of all, I don't have duffel bags.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00Duffel bag.
SPEAKER_01I don't believe you. I think you don't.
SPEAKER_00I ain't going nowhere with no just no duffel bag. I might have some luggage, furniture, everything.
SPEAKER_02With the good spinning wheels, the luggage with the good spinning wheels.
SPEAKER_00Um, seriously, though. Um, no, I mean, I didn't because because we still became, we were still because of my honesty, I think we were still cool and been friends or whatever, and got to a point, you know, like you have your argument or whatever, but then you know that it's not gonna work out. You know what I mean? And it's just kind of like you, you, you settle for the for the uh uh results of that person just not like for me. You know what I mean? And it don't make her a bad person. She wasn't bad, you know what I mean. She wasn't she was a good woman, but she just basically wasn't for me, right? For what she wanted, yeah, you know what I'm saying, in the future. And that's basically what was you know what caused things or whatever, as far as us to uh break up, you know. Um this happens a lot though, too, with with say for instance, uh with people that's um doing well in their relationships or whatever, and say for instance, somebody uh then I I mentioned even with my old situation before, but you know, it always happens to where people don't discuss what they want in the future, you know what I'm saying? Women, and uh do you go um you might get on me or you might y'all women might might have something to say, and I don't care, say it in the comments, anyway. But um some women will basically trap a guy, you know. Uh they will they will actually you know do everything that guy wants or whatever, you know, or just be happy with how he's treating her and all this type of thing or whatever, and not discussing about you know their future, and or even say, for instance, the guy, you know, future was not dealing with having kids yet. You know, and next thing you know, you're it happens. You didn't never discuss, you didn't never talk about it. Y'all didn't never, you know, but now on a sudden, you know, you're pregnant and you're about to have kids. So now that future of y'all, you know, is is why a lot of people do separate, you know, they had a real good relationship up until a child is is involved or whatever, and it's because that wasn't the plan, you know, and that's one thing that that basically when you come when we talk about uh how to fight well or whatever, when when when this is not the plan, then you know, you it's hard to fight well because now you're on different you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Different pages with how the story's gonna go. Is that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
The Patterns That Make Fights Toxic
SPEAKER_01Okay, so let's give some examples of what unhealthy might look like when you're when you're fighting, when you're actually fighting, right? Not you know, because we've got how it all mushes together, like all the things we talk about, they all just kind of converge into this big pot of stew, right? Um, so you know, that communication, that upfront, all that we we've talked about it before. We'll talk about it again, I'm sure, because it's gonna weave its way back into all of our stuff. So what would unhealthy might look like when you're um when you're arguing is when we are attacking the person and not the issue, right? So you never do this, you always do that, these kinds of things, right? As opposed to the problem. Kind of goes back to when we're talking about the dishes, right? What the problem is is that I'm not telling you that you don't always do the you always do the dishes, you don't always do the dishes. Um that's not about the dishes, again. It's about I have a need that's not getting met and I'm not sharing it with you, right? So that's unhealthy, right? If I'm not gonna tell you, and to your point, you're not being clear and upfront with me, we are not on the same page.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I I think if if one's if if if she holds it in for a long time, it's gonna come out wrong.
SPEAKER_01It's gonna come out wrong.
SPEAKER_00And if I hold it in for a long time, it's gonna come out wrong.
SPEAKER_01It's gonna come out wrong.
SPEAKER_00And that's what's gonna escalate the argument.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01For sure. So the next one is contempt. Contempt is where I'm like, you're saying something to me that's bothering you, and I'm rolling my eyes at you. Like right, whatever, I've heard this before. Not really hearing you or thinking that whatever is bothering you is ridiculous, right? And so I'm I'm actually like now criticizing you for feeling a certain way with things like eye rolling, right? Sarcasm is another one, right? Sometimes humor is a good icebreaker for arguments, but not if it's to escape, not if it's to escape the conversation, which we've talked about before, or if it's to, you know, make the other person smaller by by being funny about them, right? So sarcasm doesn't really work. Stonewalling, I'm not talking to you at all. You say something to me about that's bothering you, and I'm just like not gonna have not gonna have this conversation. I don't want to talk about it, right? That is not gonna work. Not repairing. So we have a fight, we handle it however we handle it, but we never get to resolution, right? Right, we never really talk about what is the actual problem here and how are we going to collectively solve the problem.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Right? We don't get if we don't get there, right? It's no bueno, right? Um, and in those kind of situations where you're not fighting well, one person's always winning. Right? Somebody's getting their way if the other person is not sharing what's on their heart or whatever, whether even if it's the person who's ignoring, they're getting their way. They don't have to deal with the argument, they're not paying attention, they're doing their thing.
SPEAKER_00So, what do you say about that that someone, say for instance, cause because couples get emotionally involved? You know what I mean? And then when when you when those emotions grow for each other, you don't want it to go away, you don't want it to break up or whatever, but yet the arguments is gonna cause it to break, cause you to break up. You know what I mean? And and so is there a I don't know, maybe uh uh sweet spot, so to speak, when it comes to um the communication between each other, because you know this could end up okay.
SPEAKER_01Well, here's what I'm gonna say. If this is if this argument is the thing that's gonna end the relationship, the relationship is gonna end.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna end regardless.
SPEAKER_01Because if I keep that in and I'm not telling you, resentment's gonna grow, we're gonna fall go farther apart, I'm gonna start finding all the reasons why you are not good enough or whatever it might be, right? So it's just kicking the can down the road, right? So really we need to get back to how do we have calm conversations that are honest and vulnerable and true. Uh oh, we're making BB noises again. We're adding extra sounds just to make sure you guys are staying.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to keep them awake. Keep them awake.
SPEAKER_01We don't know how what they're gonna be. It's a surprise, but we're adding them. Um, so it kind of goes back to you know, we're having these conversations about what our needs are and those sorts of things early on. We're being vulnerable early on. Um, and we as we've talked about before, not everybody's able to be vulnerable until they've you know healed some of what's going on with them, right? So it's like a big old circle,
How Healthy Conflict Actually Works
SPEAKER_01right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01So let's talk about what healthy looks like. Kind of what I just said. We're addressing the behavior or the problem, but not the person's character or who they are. So you are not bad because you are doing something that doesn't set well with me, right? You know, you know, I don't whatever it might be that I'm not unhappy with you about.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01We need to talk about that unhapp that thing that makes me unhappy, not about you being good or bad or you know, yeah, nice or mean or whatever. Okay. So that's you know, that's important. Um, and when we're having a conversation, staying curious about what the experience is for the other person, even though we don't maybe agree, right? Right, that that space of curiosity of okay, well, let me just try to be um hearing them and not thinking about what my next chess move is and what I'm gonna say back to hold up my side of the bargain, which we or my side of the conversation, which we said before. How we repair is important, um, making sure that both people are being heard is important, right? And if we do that, the relationship becomes stronger. So it sounds very vulnerable in the in the interim, like I'm right sharing things, I'm like being I'm telling you things that you know I feel uneasy about saying, right. Um, but afterwards, and you would ask me this many weeks ago, you know, has it made the relationship stronger? It will make the relationship stronger. Doesn't mean you're gonna stay together, right? But honest, calm, working on working to solve the problem and not attack the person will always make it better.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, true, yes.
SPEAKER_01And and here comes the answer.
SPEAKER_00Well, because I mean, I mean, of course, I go back to real time, you know, when when you actually in the midst of it, you know what I mean? Uh, most people don't think of the calm, the exercise as to, you know, how to leave and come back, you know, and then some people aren't even that good at it because they had never done it. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, their their their calm to to to to uh not talk about it for me and then come back, talk about it later could be, you know, still uh not satisfying to the other person because say, for instance, you know, your calm could be like, all right, I ain't gonna talk about it, I'm gonna I'm Let me go in the other room, calm down, and then come back, like in like two or three minutes, and be like, well, this is whatever. And then it gets goes back into a whole thing again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, so in real time, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes with with with with real conversations or whatever, it's kind of like, I don't know. I don't know. Is there is there a sweet spot or trigger to to to say, oh, wait a minute, you know, with in the within the conversation. You know what I mean? Is there something that can that person can be like, wait a minute, all right, all right, hold up, hold up, uh, you know, and kind of put that stop to the because we know it's going here.
SPEAKER_01It's escalating, yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah.
Spotting Escalation And Taking A Pause
SPEAKER_01Um, so yes, and we've talked about this before, and we'll talk about it again, is when our body starts reacting in a way when you you can tell, right? Like you're getting for some people it's hot, or your your heart's beating faster, or your face is getting red, or your voice is getting louder, you know you're getting oh, you know, you're getting cooked, right? Like you need uh you need to decompress some. So it could be either person seeing that that calls the time out, right? Um, the other thing I would say is when you recognize it in yourself that like, oh, I am I am going to a place that I know how this goes, right? When I go, when I get like this, I know how this goes. And if you're able to recognize that, it is not um, it's not a bad thing in that moment to be able to say, pause, I'm getting really defensive. I'm feeling myself getting flustered, you know. I'm gonna do that.
SPEAKER_00What if it's not their what if that's not even their character, though? You know, some people just don't have, you know, don't have that that mindset or that characteristics to be able to say, yes, you know, hold on, hold up, you know what I mean? Yeah. Before, you know, uh, because and and and uh to me, this is just my humble opinion. To me, humble opinion. Yeah, I mean, I think if uh to me, if you're a couple of wanting to resolve something, then yes, that should be kind of like the first thing comes to mind is to you know uh de-escalate de-escalate the situation a little bit or whatever, so y'all can have a civil conversation. You know, um, I don't think that that you know ignoring it for a long time or whatever is going to really escalate it because basically if you're thinking about it, you're you know, it's gonna build, you know, until the next time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then the next time could be worse than the first time.
SPEAKER_01For sure. Yeah, you're just putting putting a lid on it for now.
SPEAKER_00So I uh saw a part of me thinking is is it's kind of like how much do you want this relationship? How much do you want to be in this relationship in order to uh but and then sometimes you cannot maybe you cannot come to a a conclusion. You can't come to an agreement because maybe your uh upbringing or your uh uh the way you see things are for going for your relationship, it's not on the same page, you're not on the same page, totally possible.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, and then that's what happened with my exes. It's kind of like we weren't on the same page, you know. So, and and by me having the discussions and stuff like that, and not being on the same page is why we're still cool. You know what I mean? So it wasn't like, oh, I hate you, I can't stand you. Oh, you've been with me this time or whatever, and you you know, I did this and you did that, and and and we seemed like we was gonna be, and then all of a sudden, you know, now you don't want to be here, you know. Well, I don't hate you, I don't want to never talk to you, see you again. I've never had that, yeah. You know, but people have.
SPEAKER_02Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean? A lot of, you know, I I've I even work with with a few people at work that um, you know, they have baby, not well, baby mama drama, basically, you know, not getting alone. Say, for instance, they had a kid and and and uh uh the mom turned the kid against the dad, type of thing, or whatever, and they don't get alone, you know, the the the the girl or the girlfriend or ex, whatever, they don't get alone or whatever, they can't stand each other. You know what I mean? And that actually escalates and and and messes up everybody because they didn't have the means or the tools like we're trying to give y'all to you know calm yourself and have a civil conversation. Because it's not that bad to the point where if you talked about it and come to an agreement, you're gonna get alone, you know. So or or decide that you're not the right or decide, yeah, or decide that you're not, you know.
SPEAKER_01But as we go back to, you know, previous episodes and talk, think about you know, does someone feel safe because of their attachment style? Do they and their upbringing and their programming, their patterning, do they feel safe to tell you what's really on their mind? Or are they kind of just going along or people pleasing or or ignoring it completely because it doesn't feel safe, right? And at some point, that you know, I I I well, I mean, I shouldn't say always, but there's people that will people please for the rest of their life, right? But they're not ever being who they really are in that relationship, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But then also there I think people are scared of the answer that they might get.
SPEAKER_02Yes, of course, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00Of course, and then and that fear of what that answer may be is what prolongs the situation or the you know what I'm saying, the relationship. Absolutely, you know what I mean? Because it might be something that you don't want to hear, right? And then you then you're scared, like, oh well then damn, you know. As opposed to, you know, some people try to convince you to say things just to uh um stroke their ego, so to speak. Or stroke, you know what I mean, or just kind of like, you know what I mean, and then then but then that person that basically that's stroking the ego ain't being honest. He's not being, you know, he's just doing it just to, you know, make you feel better or whatever, you know, and when his real answer or her real answer is something else.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Again, we go back to it's all about being your authentic you and feeling safe enough to do that. And so many people don't feel safe enough to do that because what I'm gonna be rejected or left or you know, whatever, whatever their their um their belief is, their programming, you know. Um, but it it pretty much always catches up. Yeah, and if it doesn't catch up, you're living a life that's not your life, right? Right. So I would rather know um it's different to say it's not working too great right now, but we're working on it, we're trying to figure it out and we're doing things, and we can see that things are happening, and we're trying to find compromises and we're trying to communicate better. And you know, that's that's one path that I'm in, right? But the path of I'm not telling you what's bothering me, you're not telling me what's bothering you, or we're we're not really having conversations, and then we're just living in these like as pretend people in a relationship. That's not a relationship, like it is, but it's not a real one, right? I don't know who you really are or what your needs are or what you want. You don't know who I am or what so that that is not ideal, right? That is not the place that we want to be. Um okay. Uh oh, he's got a question for me because I see it in his eyes.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, it was it was basically like, what's your well to
When Silent Treatment Turns Into Punishment
SPEAKER_00question? I had a question. Yeah, I didn't know.
SPEAKER_01He has a question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, when does the silent treatment cross the line into uh punishment?
SPEAKER_01That's a great question. Um, you always ask me these questions that there's no one answer for, which you know, then we have to go to part 47. Um so that falls in the stonewalling category. Stonewalling and not not talking with some. So I have a couple of answers.
SPEAKER_00One so stonewalling crosses the line, basically, to stonewall someone.
SPEAKER_01To stonewall someone is not working on fixing that the problem, right? It's either you really don't want this relationship and you don't want to have this conversation, so you're just gonna ignore it and whatever, however that looks for you, right? Or you don't have the emotional tools to be able to have the conversation because that requires feelings and feel and you're not you're not able to be vulnerable with your feelings, right? Because you haven't been brought up to be able to do that. So depends on the situation. Like, do you really just not want this relationship, or are you incapable of really having that kind of conversation because you don't have the tools to be able to have that conversation, that it feels very unsafe.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So see how there's not one ever one answer. You always ask me questions about it.
SPEAKER_00And I got and I got more. And I got more. I love it. I love it. So, what about okay? So, uh, say for instance, you know, I mean, I think you said something earlier about um that it's not healthy if you don't fight.
SPEAKER_01It can be not healthy if you don't fight.
SPEAKER_00It can be not healthy if you don't fight. It is but really, well, I mean, I mean, there's there's one thing of ignoring topics, ignoring situations or whatever, and you know, and that's why you don't fight, because you're ignoring things. But there's there shouldn't really be to me, and I don't know, I could be wrong, but there shouldn't be You are, but go on. I see that, didn't you? Yeah, all right. It shouldn't be though, because I'm I'm I don't think I I never believe that fighting makes you know a relationship better.
SPEAKER_01That's interesting.
SPEAKER_00Arguments make a relationship better.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's because you don't fight well.
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I'm not saying you, it's because you haven't experienced fighting well, right? So and I and I don't really love the word fighting because uh well, we put it in a title.
SPEAKER_00So that's it. We're talking about fighting.
SPEAKER_01I know I know I think I gave you the title too.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Um because it sounds so negative, right? Like it sounds like okay, we are against each other, like it's you against me. That's that's a fight to me, versus you know, it we can have healthy conflict, we can agree to to not agree on something, right? Um, and it be good. It's like if we can fight in a way or can't have conflict in a way that I can tell you what's true for me, and you can hear me, and you can, you know, you can um, and I feel like you you understand, not agree, right? Not agree, but understand you might agree, but you might not agree, right? But you understand and I feel heard, and the same thing goes in the other direction. We can look then to find a solution to the problem together versus me trying to prove that my side's right and you trying to prove that your side's right, and that is not healthy fighting, right? Right. So if that's the kind of fighting that you've been having, no, that doesn't probably end very well.
SPEAKER_00Got it, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, all right, all right, okay, uh, here he goes, guys. Should there be things that are simple, uh simply off limits during an argument?
SPEAKER_01Well, yes, going back to stonewalling, you know, um eye rolling, uh criticizing the human, the person, not the problem, right? When we aren't attacking the person in any sort of way, that should be off limits. Because it's not about the person. You know, you had said something earlier, which was brilliant, by the way, and you won't get me to say that very much, but that was brilliant.
SPEAKER_00Oh, let me give me a camera. Yeah, I heard it, right? So brilliant. Your boy's so brilliant.
SPEAKER_01Where, you know, it might, you know, if if you're honest about this, maybe this relationship's not working for you, um that you know, that yes, it might sting, it might hurt, it might whatever. Um, but that honesty is really what we need to have a healthy relationship, right? So if you're not compatible, you're not compatible. Right.
SPEAKER_00Like that's that's kind of and I think it's healthy for I think it's healthy for you, period, yourself, period, when you know, because like I've I've been in situations to where um yes, the first initial breakup of it hurt, yeah. Of course, bothered you, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but then after maybe some time passed, I don't know how much time, but sometime passes on whatever, and you think, oh, I'm better. You know, as they say, times healed, you know, all wounds basically, you know, you will be better. It just hurt at the moment or whatever, and that's how I looked at it. It was a temporary thing or whatever, you know, because I was still able to talk to that person, or I could still be able to be a friend to that person, you know, and sometimes that's could be your purpose. Yeah, and it could be why they're there and there's there's plenty of times, there's there's plenty of women that I basically have been with that not that many, but still plenty of them, but that I've been with to 3,400. That I uh uh I feel like I was in their life for a certain purpose. Yeah, because when I see how things uh uh uh panned out in the future, you know, it helped. You know, I had I had uh an ex that that that didn't get along with their daughter, you know what I mean? And they were I'm talking about they were hating each other to the core, to the point where when me and her actually started dating, my daughter and our relationship was so great that she wanted that relationship back with her daughter, you know, and it really ended up really not ending up after you know, hindsight, whatever. After looking back, it's kind of like that wasn't really about us as a relationship. It was about her and her daughter, really. You know, because now they're great, they're better together and all that. And I feel like I did a service, yeah. You know what I mean? Even though that person might not admit it or see it that way, but that's how I see it. You know, um, I've actually um and I've told y'all, I've told, you know, people before, I've gotten shot over someone.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna tell me this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've gotten shot. This is getting goosey now, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, even though I'm still not with that person, I felt like that, you know, what I did kept her alive. You know, and we still cool and we're still friends, you know what I'm saying? Because of that. You know what I'm saying? So sometimes, you know, you get in relationships with someone or whatever that that that that and you get in your arguments and stuff and your fights and stuff like that, when sometimes it's not really about that, you know, it was probably there, you was there for a purpose for a season, as they say, you know, and that really happens, you know, without you having to feel uh uh uh uh disappointed or feel upset because it didn't work.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I think what happened of that that and that initial, because you said initially, you know, you're you you feel kind of down or bummed or whatever. Of course, yeah. And that that it that that time, of course, you're grieving the loss of something, right? That the this person's not gonna be in your life at that same capacity, but a lot of the time it's that we are grieving the loss of what we thought it was going to be, not what it actually was.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Right?
SPEAKER_01What we enjoyed.
SPEAKER_00And it changed it up to yeah, exactly sad, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it could be sad, but then all like I said, it it also can be good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if you're gonna when you see it for what it actually is.
SPEAKER_00If you go and moving forward, and you know, I mean, it takes a while once you break up with somebody to to get back into the flow of things or whatever, you know, because then you start having this honesty, you know, thinking, or or have this certain uh uh guard up when it comes to the next person, because you might think that person might be like this other person, you know what I mean? That type of thing or whatever. So uh, so yeah, I mean, it can, it can, it can that's how things I can unfold when it comes to arguments and fights and stuff. That's kind of like, you know, where I was feeling as far as when it comes to fights.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, that's good. I like it. I like it. I like it.
SPEAKER_00Like it, like let's see if it like this. All right. Oh my God.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh, can I I got you got something for me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you know, all right, you know, I got uh where'd it go?
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_00What's the difference between expressing anger and attacking someone?
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, you can be angry about something for sure. You know, you can be angry about a problem or a behavior that somebody's doing, but attacking someone is attacking the person. So again, we go back to when I'm saying that you're awful, in whatever words I might use, right? Or you're the problem, or you, you know, you've got issues versus this behavior is making me feel a certain way, and I really don't love it, that's different, right? So I can be angry about the way that you're behaving, and I can tell you how it's impacting me, or you can be angry about something, but when you're attacking me as a person, my worth, whether I'm not, you know, what you think that I'm whatever, that's that's gonna be detrimental to them.
SPEAKER_00Well, can can can that be, I mean, say whatever the arguments about, can that still be more of a uh of attack than just been anger? You know what I mean? So say for instance, you might have been angry about it or whatever, and being that you probably didn't get the answer that you wanted, you start attacking to get those answers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. I mean, you can uh it can evolve to something else, right?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01But if we're staying on those, we're staying with those tools of there is a problem that we as a team, because we're together, are trying to solve the problem. There should be no attacking the human.
SPEAKER_02True.
SPEAKER_01It's not that's not the issue. That's not what we're trying to solve, right? We're trying to solve the problem, whatever the problem is. And we should be working together to solve the problem, not talking about how you always or you never or you're bad, or you you can't, or you're not capable, or you're not, you know. Um, that doesn't that's a that's a recipe for disaster, right? So, what is the problem? How can we collectively solve the problem? You know, I might not see it as a problem, but if it's a problem for you and I care about you, let's figure it out. Let's see if we can figure this out. Okay, maybe we can, maybe we can't. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00We can figure it out.
SPEAKER_01I didn't know we were going to dance a little, but okay.
Small Steps To Build Relationship Safety
SPEAKER_01Um, okay, so I've got a couple of things, a couple bullet points to share on how to build a relationship safe enough for honesty. Um, and I'm gonna look at it two different ways. So, one, if you have been the one keeping the peace, you've been the people pleaser, you've been not bringing up things, you you know, what have you. First, we have to start small. We can't go from people pleaser to the person who, you know, is 100% honest and says everything and says it just won't work. Like you're you've got to build up, right? So we're gonna find something minor that's kind of rubbing you the wrong way. And we're gonna have a calm conversation about that minor thing. Could be the cup, even the cup in real life this time, not the cup like we talked about, where it's not about the dishes, right? Um, something minor that you can have a conversation about that's low risk. Okay. Um, and you're gonna ask yourself, is this worth saying something about? Like, is it really bothering me so much? What's happening in my body that this cup is sitting here, or this, you know, the laundry wasn't done or whatever, um, to really check in, or is it something else for you? Because if it's something else, that's probably a bigger conversation, right? So, you know, when the person responds, when you say, Hey, could you please put your socks away? And and they're like, Yeah, I really don't want to do that, what's happening for you? Are you like, you know, and making it about you?
SPEAKER_00Because that's you know, but the person asking you saying, or the person responding.
SPEAKER_01So if I ask you to please put your socks away and you're like, Yeah, I'm not gonna do that.
SPEAKER_00Right. Is it about me?
SPEAKER_01And then I and then I'm starting to do it.
SPEAKER_00Or just be in an asshole.
SPEAKER_01Could be, right? Could be, right? So, but uh my my work is to look at like how did I how did my body and my mind what did I start thinking about that? Did I start thinking that oh he doesn't care about me, this is the start of the end, or did or am I thinking he's just an asshole?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01What what is happening for me? Because that tells you where your work is, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, and that scenario sounds like some person is an asshole, but anyway, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01I I mean, I don't disagree, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_01I don't disagree. So let's flip switch. And if it's your partner who's the one that's keeping the peace, and you're the one that that is kind of like, wow, he never argues, you know, he never says anything. Like everything's like, yes, yes, yes, that's great, wonderful, wonderful. Um to to be brave enough if you can, if you sense that something's wrong, to ask something like, is there something that you've been holding back? Right now, they may not answer, right? But if they do, your job then is to listen without trying to defend your side of the street, right? Like, you know, I don't want to put socks away because I'm allergic to them. I don't know, I'm allergic to laundry, whatever. That you know, not excuse me, not trying to defend, just listen. And again, noticing what's happening in your body, right? How is this landing? Um so the question really isn't um is fighting good or is fighting bad?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Because may I don't know, depends on your relationship, right? But really, do we both feel safe enough to be honest about what's going on for us? Okay. That's the actual question.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Right? Not should we or should we not fight?
SPEAKER_00Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01Okay. What do you think? Oh it's like, I don't know, should we or should we not fight?
SPEAKER_00I mean, no, no, no. I mean, I it's not the fact that I don't believe fighting fighting is healthy or not, you know, or healthy in a relationship, um, because I just don't like it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00You know what I'm saying? Nobody really likes it, I don't think.
SPEAKER_01But let's let me rephrase it for you. What if the fight looked like we were sitting down, we were having a nice cup of coffee, it's a beautiful day outside. I come to you and say, hey, fuel, or something I want to talk about. It really like, you know, I'm feeling a little blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because you don't do XYZ. Right. Does that feel like a fight to you?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So like we just need to talk about what's what's on your mind.
SPEAKER_01At the end of the day, there's something I'm unhappy with. There's a conflict between us, right? Because I'm unhappy with it. You if I can have that conversation, that is fighting well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. If I if I can learn, if I learn that something's bothering you, and I oh, I got a list, my friend. Don't believe that, Jazz. Yeah, you got a list of me. Uh no, if I if I actually, you know, basically my because more so I'm concerned what it is that's bothering. You know? So if my reaction is to try to solve it, but my answer is not good enough for you, then that's when things get out of hand because you didn't get to hear what you wanted to hear, or what you expected to hear.
SPEAKER_01What I was hoping to hear, yeah. But if we're having a relationship where we are, where I can present you with the problem, the thing that's bothering me in a calm and peaceful way, right? Because I'm doing it often, I'm doing it early, I'm not holding it, holding it, holding it for months and months and months. Right. Right. I'm telling you, like, hey, this is kind of like bugging. Um, and you can say, maybe you're maybe you're not even trying to solve it from your side. Maybe it's like, well, let's look at some solutions where we can work on this together and figure out what might work for both of us, right? That's technically still like a disagreement, but we're having it in a calm, peaceful way to find a resolution to a problem.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Right. So that kind of fighting you can do. It's the right, like you would feel like it's the attacking, the screaming, the stonewalling, the rolling the eyes, the like not listening, not giving you any that because you're not being seen and heard, you're not working on it together.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Right. That's the part that we don't like, right? Exactly. That's the part we don't like. So that's how we have to learn how to fight better.
SPEAKER_00Cool, cool.
SPEAKER_01Fight right. Yes.
SPEAKER_00And I wasn't trying to get you on the camera. I was like glending always as well.
SPEAKER_02I know we're running out of time.
SPEAKER_00You start looking up, wait till you see that. What do you see that play back? You're gonna lie. What is he doing?
SPEAKER_01Um actually, I was gonna call time on you earlier, but you know, you got another question. So um
Big Takeaways And Closing Message
SPEAKER_01okay. So the takeaway here, I think, really is you know, not fighting is not always a good thing. Right. Fighting can be a good thing if we're doing it right. Right? It can bring us closer, it can it can make us show up as our real authentic self. We can have a real relationship, not a not a uh, you know, a relationship where we're acting a certain way because we don't want things to escalate or whatever. Right. So there we go. So the question is not whether or not we should fight or shouldn't fight. It's do we feel like we can have honest conversations and solve the problem together.
SPEAKER_00In a fight. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01In a fight.
SPEAKER_00Crack myself up. You cracked me up too. No, that's good. All right, all right, all right. Well, would you guys let us know what you guys think about that takeaway of what we just uh expressed just now. Uh hit us in the comments, subscribe. We need y'all to subscribe, you know, comment, like, all that stuff when you see us on social media, Facebook, and follow us. You know what I mean? We love to have you guys with us every week. So that's gonna do it for us tonight. That was actually good. That was a good that was a good takeaway, too, because um I I probably need that for myself sometime. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Now I'm not gonna comment.
SPEAKER_00Don't don't comment. Oh man. That's what's up, that's what's up. We appreciate you guys tapping in. And remember, if they're talking about you behind your back, they behind you for a reason.
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