Anxiety's Role In Relationship Sabotage.

Anxiety can be a powerful, often unconscious driver of relationship sabotage. While it’s not inherently malicious, it can distort how we perceive and respond to our partners, leading to behaviors that undermine connection and stability.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Uh-oh, you know, whatever.

unknown 0:03

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

So we're gonna go ahead and get into it. You know what I'm saying? It's gonna be on you, Chef. What are we talking about today, man, in the celebrity world?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Yeah, well, thank you. Welcome back, everybody. Um, this week I'll be breaking down um celebrity relationship between Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco. I feel like it spotlights um mental health and connecting to real life conversations that people have been talking about in the social media world. So I'll be diving deep into that today. Um today. They're making headlines because not because of the drama, because they are in a safe, secure relationship. And I feel like it's really good one to highlight, um, especially with our topic on mental health and relationships. It's got me thinking what we can actually learn from healthy relationships instead of always focusing on the unhealthy ones, you know. I feel like today, you know, there's so many. Um, all we see is just bad relationships between celebrities. They're all just basically just negative news. So I feel like this is a positive one that we can definitely highlight today. So what's been happening with them is Selena, Selena and Benny, they have continued to sharing their relationship publicly, but fans have been talking about how comfortable and secure they uh seem together. Along with that, breakup rumors have circulated online, often as they do with celebrities. But these rumors haven't been backed up. Um, they've I mean they have been backed up because they are still together. But they I feel like it's a good thing to highlight and what stands out to me isn't the rumors, it's how Selena openly talks about how she struggled with mental health over the years, and she's been incredibly honest about the work she's done on herself. And she spoke in interviews on of how um Benny has just wanting, always wants her to make her feel safe, loved, intercepted for exactly who she is. And I feel like he's done just that. And I feel like he says he doesn't want to fix her, he just wants to support her. So I feel like that's a huge thing in today's world. I mean, that's what every girl wants, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:18

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

I mean, that's what I want. I mean I feel like that's hard to find, and um, just the fact that they're celebrities and able to be open about this is really great, and how they're just super secure with each other. Um, so my question for you guys is how do you think emotionally um how do you think emotionally safety is important in Oh my gosh, I'm sorry guys, I'm off my game today. Do you think emotional safety emotional safety or chemistry is more important in a relationship?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Um I think both is important, to be honest. Um when it comes to that, yeah, I I I pretty much I feel both. I'm gonna go with both is important. I think it has to have a balance between it, you know, between the two. Um, but because one, I mean, to be supportive of someone that's going through a situation or anxieties or or uh bipolar and stuff like that, whatever, as long as they're like we always talk about communication, as long as they're um letting it be known, and you got somebody loving and care enough to to be there for you, you know. I think I think it's both, you know. I'll go with both. What do you what do you say?

SPEAKER_04 3:39

He's gonna go with both. There we go. So um I don't disagree that it is it needs to be both, but it's an interesting thing because of of the work that I study. Um, it often happens that we feel um a chemist chemistry type connection to somebody when really they're not the right person for us because of our attachment style. So uh sometimes we can be really attractive to somebody, and it's really because we come from a land of chaos and that chaos feels comfortable, right? Our nervous system recognizes it, and so that is the attraction. So for me, I would always put emotional safety first because if you feel safe, you it's kind of like you know, have you ever met the person who initially you weren't attracted to, and then because you felt safe with them, all of a sudden they became attractive, right? Versus the other way, right? You're attracted to them and you're like, ah, it may or may not work. So I for me it's emotional safety for sure first. Um, but both are important, obviously. Because yeah, do you need me to get up and fix that for you? All right, so so I'm gonna go with what Fuel said. Yes, both, but with a tweak.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yes, I like that, Glenda. Thank you guys for your input. But Glenda, I also want to highlight that. What what do you think makes um someone feel emotionally safe in a relationship?

SPEAKER_04 5:07

Well, um, hang on, because Fuel's knocking everything over over here. So just like hold on, people. He's next the camera's going down, we're not gonna be able to see his cute face. It's just a thing happening over here, you guys. Um, okay, so you know, I think at the end of the day, we all want to be seen and heard. Um and and that doesn't necessarily mean that our partner has to agree with what's going on with us, but can honestly listen and and you know, get feedback, um messages that let us know that we are seen and heard. So that's what we all really want at the end of the day, right? To be seen and heard, not necessarily that you have to agree with everything I say or do everything that I want or be exactly like me. Um, and that creates the safety, right? That you feel it's okay to be you, whatever that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yes, for sure. I feel like if you're emotionally, if you feel emotionally safe with somebody, you can be authentically yourself, which is a great thing. Obviously, we all want that. Um, I also want to ask you guys, what do you think? Um, how do you think social media changed our expectations of relationships? How do you think it shapes their relationship? I feel like one thing is about them also is they they're they share enough of the relationship where we're they're letting us in, but they're also private, private about it as well. They don't won't share certain aspects of the relationship, which I think is a great thing being a um a public figure.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Ask that question again. He's better.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

I'm in here.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

We don't have time for that today, Shelby. The expectations that's a whole nother episode.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

Well, I mean, I can answer that.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Um I I can answer it. But but okay, so it's it's really, I don't know, I think it's really on how you raised. You know, I mean, because you shouldn't even be looking at uh um you shouldn't be kind of uh uh uh taking celebrity, you know, uh information or relationships and putting it into your own, you know what I mean? In other words, not looking up to them for your relationship. Right, you know what I mean, to a certain point. You know what I mean? It's kind of like you you yeah, idolize them for what they do, their performance and stuff like that. But when it comes to their personal thing or whatever, I don't think you know uh one should uh try to build their lives around it, you know. But then again, you like the story with uh Selena, you know, still she's you know uh have a very supportive, you know, uh mate or whatever. This is actually a learning lesson for people that has anxiety or uh depression or anything like that to where you know it's a good thing as well. So it's it's it's yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

So I think comparing has always been there, right? Before social media, we still compared. We compared to the next door neighbor or our our friends in school or the our, you know, what we saw our friends' boyfriend, girlfriend relationship, or the the people down the block who thought that they were um, you know, you thought from the the outside that they were they had the perfect relations. I don't think any of that's ever that's gone away. Like I think we always have compared. Um, and in a perfect world we wouldn't. We would just worry about our own selves, right? Uh, but that's not how humans are wired, unfortunately. Um but so having access to everybody's everything on social media has definitely caused it to be on steroids, right? So it's like pushed to you a lot more than you know, than you walking down the street and seeing your neighbors sitting on the porch having lemonade together. That's like a little bit more you're going after it, and this is really being fed to you constantly, which I think has um created a lot of the you know compare and dispare environment that we have or the the mentality that a lot of us have.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

So yeah, and I think it's hard for Selena and Benny being a public figure in the, you know, in the eye um for everybody to see. So I think that they're just a good example of how to support each other through that. That, you know, through being a public figure, they're he's doesn't want to fix her. He wants to support her with her mental health, which is great. And I think them keeping a private, semi-private life with a relationship is great, but sharing enough for the public because they are, you know, role models and public figures. I mean, that being said, it's so hard being a role model because a lot of people look up to celebrities, but we're not supposed to idolize them, which I don't because I'm a religious person, but I definitely don't think anybody should idolize them. But they are public figures, so people do look up to it as a fact. But I want to hear from our listeners to see if they have any input on um how what emotionally safe in a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Me too. I want to hear from them too. Any of you viewers listening right now, you know, come in on the conversation. Come in on the conversation. Uh, if you got any comments on what we're talking about, come in on the conversation. I see uh falsely, is that falsely A falsely accused? 3045. She says she's a clone? Who's a clone? Yeah, you you think that uh or you are you just maybe, maybe, maybe you think in the picture. Let's pull her up. Let's see. She'll the the picture kind of makes her look clonish, though, don't it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

I mean, I don't think that's the best picture of Selena right there to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Right, right, right, right. Maybe that's not the best, you know what I'm saying? But uh, I don't know. I don't think she's a clone. I mean, of course not, man. Maybe that's just like one of the pictures. It looked like a lot more it looked like a lot more light on her than Yeah, I personally grew up watching Selena.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

I think she's a great person all around, and I definitely think she's a good public figure to look up to. But to wrap all up and um this, you know, the aspect of highlighting the relationship, I think that they're a big the biggest takeaway is the biggest, you know, drama doesn't always make the headlines, but I feel like this is a this is what we should be looking at is the healthy relationships and celebrities.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Yeah. The real outcome of this is is like you're saying though, too. I mean, to really kind of like wrap it up in a uh sense for especially the viewers to understand that that even though you know you have a mental situation, a mental health problem, uh, and you're with someone, which we're gonna get into the next conversation, you know, about uh uh anxiety roles in a relationship, um how anxiety is yeah, roles in a relationship, um, which is kind of pretty cool that we kind of put all that together. Y'all did that. I didn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Anyway, yeah, I think that as long as relationships are the quiet ones, build respect and communication and showing up for each other each day, which they're a great example of.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Yeah. But it is it's a good, it's a good take to take this positive uh uh aspect, you know, um even with, like you said, celebrities that go through something to be able to even share that or whatever, that's a big thing, you know, and it'd be a positive thing instead of someone trying to twist it into something negative and you know, causing their relationship to be even, you know, go uh bad, going bad or whatever, you know, just because they are, you know, social media talking this and talking that. You know, so this is a good thing, you guys. And you know, and that's one of the things that we want to bring you guys to, you know, say we don't want to always talk about the negative things, we want to talk about what's actually killing, what's gonna happen uh uh once you try certain, you know, exercise. Or if you take look, for example, those uh celebrities that has gotten through it. I mean, even we were talking about uh uh last week, uh Jelly, Jelly, what is his name? Jelly Jelly Roll.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

Jelly Roll.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

We're talking about Jelly Roll. You know what I'm saying? That situation. That was a positive situation, you know what I'm saying? So that's why I that's one thing I'm I'm liking that you bring it, Shelby, is that the positive part of these you know mental health situations or whatever, as opposed to, you know, uh having you know just talking about something that maybe to people wanting to help, they don't see it, they don't, you know, uh uh uh understand it or see it from other people to the point where we can bring that to them, you know, and and and do that. So awareness. Awareness, that part. Exactly. Yeah. So kudos to you, Shells. I appreciate it. I appreciate that. Indeed, indeed. All right. You got any more on that? Or we got are we good or what? You good?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Um, yeah, thank you, Phil. I just want to say thank you. That is my goal. Um, I want to bring the positive celebrity relationships to to highlight because I think we need to be focusing on more positive um celebrity couples versus just the tabloids, like we hear, just the negative things about them, which weighs on their mental health as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Yeah, I know I do have a question that you had on here too. It's like, have you ever had someone to make you feel like completely safe to be yourself?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yes, I have. My last relationship, I felt completely safe, and that was a new thing for me. I'd never felt that from any other relationship that I was in. And like I said, I was able to be authentic myself. But and I think that is just huge. It's the number one thing I look for when I'm dating somebody is you know, does this person make me feel emotionally safe? If they don't, then that relationship for me is not gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's sure how we should try to, you know, be with someone that you can be yourself, you know what I'm saying? And that they can be supportive of you and help you, whatever that you're going through, you know. So, oh yeah, okay. All right. Well, what about what you well, you've been married for for I don't know, almost 25 years. 25?

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Almost 25 years.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

So yeah, it's hard when I look 27, right?

SPEAKER_05 15:18

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

Yeah, it's hard. We're gonna go with that.

unknown 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

But but but when it comes to you know uh this sort of thing, you know, I mean, because I'm sure as the when you were younger, I mean, did y'all ever have any situations like this where one has a certain you know mental situation where uh you had to be supportive of it, or that person had to be supportive of you?

SPEAKER_04 15:49

Um, so I think the way I've been wired since I've as far as I can remember, is I have always shown up as the person who supports everybody else. And and because of my upbringing and my um kind of messages that I got that I should just have it all figured out, was very reluctant to have anybody see any broken, what I would consider broken parts of me or parts of me that needed support. So I was much more of the I'm gonna support you, and a lot less of allowing others to support me until I did my work.

SPEAKER_05 16:30

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

Right. Um, which is an interesting, an interesting thing because there's it kind of messed with my brain in terms of tricking it in thinking that I was healing by helping others. Oh, right, by being there for others, and that just wasn't true.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 16:50

That just wasn't true.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

So how long did it take for you to realize that though?

SPEAKER_04 16:53

Like oh, 27 years my entire life.

SPEAKER_05 16:59

Good Lord.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

It's it it it it took a long time because um I didn't have access to the tools that we're sharing with the listeners now or that are more readily available through, you know, through coaching or therapy. So you know, you don't know what you don't know. Right, right, right. Right. So I'm you know, it's I think it's a pretty amazing thing that you know, I look at my kids, the things that they have access to, the things that are okay to talk about now around mental health and you know how they need support. Where when I was a kid, if you if you said you saw a therapist or if they, you know, anybody thought that there was anything mentally wrong with you, you were kind of like a monster. You were like broken, like broken, right? It was not acceptable.

SPEAKER_05 17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

Um, so it's it's a pretty cool time that we're in that it's not really a thing, right? It's just we can talk about it, we can, you know, share. Hey, who's your who's your support person? Oh, that's my support person too, you know. Right, right. It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Oh, cool. I guess I got my answers. Good stuff, Shelby.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Good stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Good stuff, good stuff, good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

I agree with that, Glenda. I feel like that when even when I was a kid, it wasn't nearly as highlighted as it is now. I feel like it's so normal to see a therapist now, and we all need it.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

So normal. Yeah, so so normal. Right? It's almost becoming, it feels a little bit almost like if you don't have some kind of support with a coach or a therapist, that you're the odd one now.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

Which is cool. I mean, I think it's great. Everybody deserves to have support, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

No, I do think that we've shifted for the best way possible.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Cool, cool. Well, that's gonna take us, man, into uh the main topic, guys. Um or ladies, oh man, oh I hate to say that. Ladies, there's a main topic, which is going to be about the relationships. Uh the anxiety roles, anxiety's roles in a relationship.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

And if you forget my name again, I swear to you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

No, no, no, no. I wasn't gonna say your name at all. No, I was I wasn't gonna say your name at all. No, I was I was thinking of actually one of the main things uh anxiety does, you know, uh, you know, when it comes to anxiety and the roles in relationship sabotage, I mean, it doesn't actually mean like uh a bad thing in a relationship. You know what I mean? Yeah, uh it's an adaptive, responsive and uncertainty, but when it is chaotic, uh chaotic, chaotic, if I say that right, which we're feeling our unmanaged, it can uh distort communication. Yeah, you know what I mean? And that's the main thing that we I want to get into this conversation is you know, when it does become chaotic, chaotic.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

One, two, three, chaotic.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Chaotic. Thank you, teacher. Uh you know, what what is it? What is what are some of the steps that we can take for that? So I'll let you open up with that.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Wonderful. So I think um the first thing that we need to recognize is that anxiety can be a very useful tool, right? It if there's if you're faced with um, you know, somebody chasing you with a knife or there's a big bear in front of you, or what you kind of want to get your tukas in gear and you want to get moving, right? And so anxiety is going to create that danger for you that gets you moving, right? So it's not always a bad thing. The challenge we have is when it's in relationships, um, it shows up as behaviors versus uh, you know, a sign, a true sign of that there's danger. Um, and so when we understand kind of how it shows up, um, and we won't get too much into why somebody might be anxious, but um, because that's you know, we can talk about anxiety for the next 20 years on this show and not run out of things to talk about. Right, right. You gotta kind of keep it somewhat um tight. Somewhat tight, somewhat tight, yeah, somewhat tight. So talking about how anxiety might show up and start sabotaging the relationship and why that person might do certain behaviors is useful. Um, and we'll talk about some tools about that that you can use if you're the anxious person to kind of, you know, right regulate a little bit, and also a tool that the partner or the person who's receiving the anxious might might be able to do. So, you know, as always, before we get started, I always like to ask you guys on the anxiety side. I know we talked about fuel last week. You were talking about there was a little bit of there was a little bit of energy around being with somebody who is anxious and wanting you to, you know, get back to you all right in a nano sense. Second and what have you. Um my my first question for you is do you feel like you attract people who tend to be more anxious?

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Ooh, whoa.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

Oh, we're going in. We're going in.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Whoa. You open a can of worms going on Truth Talk Thursday. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah. Um, yeah. And I don't know why. I don't know why. Uh are you meaning like, is it like do they do they do they feel like you know when you say anxious, like anxious is to having a serious relationship or anxious as to anxious in any way.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Like do you tend to attract people that to you feel like they're anxious? Like they, you know, that they're not um whether it's you gotta text me all the time, or I don't really know where this relationship is going, or I'm not yeah, but and then I I and sometimes I don't know, and I don't know if this is contagious or not, but sometimes it makes me anxious.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Of course, you know what I mean? Because you're because they're anxious, and I want, you know, I want to make sure that they're happy and they're good or whatever, but then that anxious also can put on uh anxiety to me. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, because now I'm I'm I'm more sure of how to do it right out, and yeah, you know what I'm saying? And then under not understanding if even if I did it right, is this the end of this? Is it is it do we go for, you know what I'm saying? Or is this gonna be something else next to be anxious about, to be, you know, so uh, and I do, I have, I've I've I've I've gotten with yeah, I've attractive. You're an anxious attractive I'm attractive, yeah, to to to people that's that's been anxious and you know, uh and has and has uh anxiety. And I try to I but try to be supportive of it to calm them down or you know, they don't know things that all you know, everything is okay, everything's gonna be all right, just take our time, you you know, because we got another day, it's coming, it's you know what I'm saying. Um but doesn't always work, huh? It don't always work, and I don't know how to, which you may be able to help me with there, because I don't know how to conversate with them in a different way, you know, that's going to where they're gonna be able to hear and comprehend what I'm saying. Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

Yeah, okay. Um we'll get we'll touch a little bit on it today, but I think we probably need to keep having these conversations because there's so many, it's nuanced, right? There's every human is different, every human is nuanced in a way. So um it'd be fun if you're up to it in the future to kind of come with some examples of hey, this is the situation, and here's how anxiety showed up with that particular person, and here's how I handled it, and we can we can use you as the as the case study. I got it if you're up for it. Uh uh You think about it.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

No, I got an example.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Well, you don't get to give me example today. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

You gave me an example last week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the whole like texting me every three seconds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got more. But okay, keep a journal. And Shelby, I know that you had expressed last week that you tend to be a little bit more on the anxious side. Um, which you know, have you attracted somebody who is, I'm gonna say, more anxious than you?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

No, but I've attracted avoidance. The opposite. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 25:40

So yes. Yeah, we talked a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

I had to think about that. I'm like, yeah. I don't recall if I did, but nothing that lasts a long time.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Not high, not very likely. It's not very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I have attracted a person that was like equally as anxious as me, but not more so, but it's more than on the avoidant side, the opposite of me.

SPEAKER_04 26:04

Yeah, it's fun stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Right, yeah, it's so fun.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

I I I want to know how come like Fat Boy gets out of all these really like tough conversations, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:13

This is like I mean, you know, when we're talking about deep stuff here, he's well it'll be different if if if if he uh knew exactly what we were gonna be talking about.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Oh, you think he would show up or not show up?

SPEAKER_02 26:26

No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying that's that's I mean, I mean he was I mean he's really you know, he's yeah, he'll be into he'll be into.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

I know.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

I'm I'm just I'm just creating shit. I know, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Okay, um, so uh like last week and the week before, I want to kind of just set the parameters around what we're not gonna talk about. So this is not this is not a you know calm down advice episode. Um, you know, it's about understanding the mechanism behind anxiety and what people tend to do right when they are anxious, okay? Um, and we'll give some tools and and talk about that stuff too. So um the ang when we have anxiety, it's our nervous system really kind of like scanning for danger. And like I said before, in a relationship, it's danger's not the predator, right? That's not what's happening here. What's happening is that anxiety for them is disconnection. So if I feel anxious, I feel disconnected. That's the that's the equivalent of being chased by a knife. Okay, so it's disconnection for me. Um, and it can show up in ways like um, you know, if somebody's if you were to respond to me in a in a in a texting time frame that was too slow for me, that could cause anxiety for me because I feel disconnected.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

If I felt like the tone of your voice was kind of flat, I could be reading that as, oh my gosh, disconnected, right? Um, so it's like fire alarms, like danger, danger, danger, when really the danger's not there, right? It's it's um, and so some of the things that we do when we're anxious is what's called protest behaviors, and they are strategies that we use to try to feel connected, right? Um, so we'll talk about some of those today because those are fun. So the first strategy I want to talk about is, and this is like the texting thing, is reassurance seeking. Okay. So if I'm asking all the time, and let's just say, you know, we actually are talking, and I'm like, do you really care about me, Fuel? Like, really? And you're like, Yeah, yeah, I care about you. You know, and then 10 minutes later, I'm like, are you sure you really care about me? Like, is it not believing like, you know, and constantly needing that reassurance, right? So, how would that land for you if I'm constantly asking you? We good? I'm feeling we're like a little off. Are we gonna feel I'm feeling insecure? I'm feeling insecure about this. Are we gonna do that?

SPEAKER_02 28:59

I gave it no, I I get I I I actually gave it a look because this happened to you. Yeah, you know what I mean? And this is is is really like yeah, it's like getting something to me. But go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

Well, it's funny because you said exactly what I was gonna say is that you're wondering if that's it. Is this gonna stop? How many times do I have to reassure you for you to be good? Or is this just gonna go on forever? And am I ever gonna be able to get this right?

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, right. So that's my worry, that's my concern when it comes to that.

SPEAKER_04 29:31

Yeah. So clearly, if you are always thinking, am I ever gonna be able to get this right? How long am I gonna have to do this? Is she ever gonna feel okay? Like uh, that's going to impact the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

Like you just can't be like, Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

What what would you say about? I mean, because that's sometimes that's what I would see coming, you know what I'm saying? And if I see it coming, then I get defensive and then I I get isted. You know what I mean? Because it's a conversation. After I've had a conversation with someone and they still come back with the same conversation, you know, that wears on me to be like, I don't want to have this conversation no more. Yeah, you know, and you want to give up.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

You don't want to give up, but you want to give up because it's kind of like how many ways, how many times, how many right, right? How can I package it up this time that it's gonna land? You know, how many times? So, so this is why it's a sabotage of the relationship, right? That this anxiety strategy um and understanding that it's coming from a place of I feel disconnected. Well, so you you can understand that, but it can still hurt your relationship, right? So later we'll talk about some tools that the anxious person can use. Um, you know, and when and one of the ones that we talked about last week actually fit nicely. We're just kind of like going with it, it's just going like this.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

But what tools am I using? That's what I want.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

So in this particular case, we are going back to kind of the tool that we talked about last week. In, you know, we need to kind of sit down and say, Look, this is making me feel um like I can't get this right. And we need to come to an agreement of what it's gonna look like for me to tell you in how many times and in what way, kind of like how many times I'm gonna text you back and how often, you know, how often, um, so that we can get to a space of I don't feel like I'm having to find all these creative ways to tell you so that you'll believe me, but then I still don't feel like you're ever gonna believe me.

SPEAKER_05 31:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

Um, so when we talked about last week, in consistency is more important than constantly.

SPEAKER_05 31:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

Okay. So, like coming to an agreement of you know, I'm gonna tell you, I care about you in the morning and in the night or whatever. And when we're consistent with that, that helps to calm the anxious person's nervous system versus saying it 7,000 times a day, right? Inconsistently. Okay. So that would be a tool that you would use. All right. Number two, like pattern number two, manufactured conflict. So picking a fight just because for no reason. Like, why is that lined up that way? Why is it not lined up this way? Like that, like that's bugging me. Fuel, can you put it this way? Like I, you know, so we've all been there, I'm sure, where somebody's picking a you feel like they're picking a fight for no reason. Well, we do that when we're anxious, we might justify it in our mind that, like, really, I've told you throughout 12 times I don't want it that way, and I really want it the other way. So why don't you just do it? Right. But um so we might be able to justify it in our mind that we think it makes sense why we're picking a fight. But really, it's if you engage with me about, you know, fight back with me about this ridiculous thing, then I know you're still there. We're still connected, we're still talking, we're still we're fighting, but you haven't walked out the door, right? So it's again a strategy for me to feel connected to you. Terrible strategy, but it's a strategy.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Okay. You know I got questions, right? I'm here for I'm here for let's go.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

I have input too, Glenda. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Let's go. Oh well, at what point does self-sabotage become a choice instead of a symptom?

SPEAKER_04 33:37

So, you know, the saying you keep doing what you've been doing, you keep getting what you've been getting. If it works for them, they're gonna keep doing it until they recognize or they get the support, the anxious person gets the support in that really is getting to the root of what is what is this um fear of that uh this person leaving or you being left behind, or you know, how can we get to a place where you can build the security, the anxious person, build the security in that I'm looking at the patterns of what actually is happening and not what's going on in my mind of what I assume is happening, right? I assume that if he doesn't get back to me after the third text, that must mean he's on his way out. This is the first step, and he doesn't care and he's gonna leave versus, oh, he actually texted me an hour later. And that happens pretty consistently, and looking at the patterns, right? So kind of going out of what I good to I think is gonna happen versus what is actually happening and looking at that trend instead of what your mind's making up as what this means, right? This means we're gonna we're doomed. He didn't text me back after three times.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

So what's what's the distinguish, though, been between the two? What's the distinguish between uh someone having anxiety and someone just having a bad behavior? You know what I mean? Well, it's kind of like yes, how can you, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

So like anxiety creates bad behavior if to get the results that they want, right? Um, or not bad behavior, I don't want to say bad behavior, but unfavorable beh behavior for the for the partner, usually. So what in your mind would be I want you to tell me what you think bad behavior is, so we can kind of unpack that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Because bad to you might not be bad to you. Well, bad behavior to me is is is is like I said, is is is bringing up something that you already know is gonna cause a big issue. You know what I mean? Like, say for instance, if we already talked about something or whatever, and and even though I mean it can be like there's there's there's a certain amount of time it can be anxiety, and then there's a certain amount of time it can be just the bad behavior because anxiety, I believe, at least what I think, and you can tell me more. Um anxiety is is having going through a situation and you're being you know, and the other person supporting that situation and being, you know, understanding and trying to get through that situation as opposed to someone just kind of like uh having uh is and I wouldn't call it anxiety, I would say more insecure, insecureness or whatever. Tell me how you feel like insecure using that in insecureness as anxiety.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

Okay, so tell me the difference in your mind. What's the difference between being insecure and being anxious? One is like if if if it was me and I was the one that that's an anxious human, and I'm love, I'd love to hear this from from Shelby too in a minute. But if I'm the anxious human, um how do you know as my partner whether what's showing up is anxiety or whether it's insecurity?

SPEAKER_02 37:02

When it's constantly said, I mean, when it's uh when it's the same conversation.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Okay. So see, that's your that's your that's your filter, right? Yeah, but uh I'm telling you, as a pretend anxious person, actually not totally pretend, but as a pretend anxious person, right, that there's some deep wiring in me, some deep programming that I uh not by my schedule, but just comes up in my nervous system that says, Oh my god, I feel disconnected and I need to know again we're okay. So I'm gonna ask you, how are we doing? Are we okay? You seem a little distant. And to you, it's like, how many times are you gonna ask me this question? I told you Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday we were okay, and now we're Friday, and you're asking the question again, right? Right? So you can see how we're if if you were imagining that that I am not doing this to drive you crazy or not because um I mean, I guess the insecurity would be that that I'm having something happening somatically in my body that feels like I'm disconnected from you in some way, right? And I don't want to be right, I want to be connected. So one of the strategies that I use to help calm my nerves for a minute is to ask you, like, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Are we okay?

SPEAKER_04 38:31

To you, it's annoying because you you're like, I feel fine, I don't feel disconnected.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

But sometimes that that question ain't how how are we doing, are we okay? It's more of maybe either accusations or insecurity or whatever. So basically, you know, it's just a strategy.

SPEAKER_04 38:49

It's a strategy accusing you of that. I don't I don't think that we should use it, but I think we do it because we need to feel connected.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

No, I'm not I'm saying the strategy as to the of what you just said, as far as uh um commonly coming at, you know, are we okay? We good, you know what I mean? Because then once you I mean, because I don't mind like reassuring like you know what I'm saying. If I'm a reassure, I'm a reassurer that it's okay, I don't mind that. It's just kind of like the same topic, the same thing or whatever, yes, of saying that I'm okay, that you're okay about. Yeah, you know what I mean. So you can you can always have a you know some kind of little worry or whatever to you know, I'm I'm wondering if everything's okay, you know what I'm saying? And then come to me and be like, you know, everything okay, we good, we good, and I can assure you that we good, I can do that all. I can make you feel good about that all day, every day. You know what I mean? But if it's about the same thing, say a certain topic, like what?

SPEAKER_04 39:49

Give me an example.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Um, if I give you a sample, people you know who I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

No, I'm just make make up one. I guess it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Uh oh, say for instance, uh uh my work schedule. Say, for instance, my work schedule, right? And and the same topic is, oh, you know, like I get off late or getting out late, you know, when I'm coming home, that you know, it's the same thing, the same topic about getting off and getting in, you know what I mean, that type of thing. Then, you know, that's what frustrates me. But if the topic is like, oh, you know, I'm just making sure we good, we okay, then I can be like, babe, we good. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Okay, they're the same thing. It doesn't come in your mind as the same thing. No, it don't, but it it is the same thing. It's it's my strategy, and I've got many as an anxious person. It is one of my strategies to feel connected to you, right? So, you know, again, this is like where we we need to do the work on both sides, and we need to come together with this is how this landed for me, this is how I'm taking it, this is how it landed for me, this is how I'm taking it. How can we agree on something that will make us both feel okay? So if I were to say to you, look, fuel, you can tell me 27,000 ways how you love me, but the one way that I'm like still my body's unsettled about is your work schedule. And I know I ask you all the time, and I know it's probably annoying, but something inside of me needs to feel connected when I ask you that. Like I and would it land differently for you if you knew what that connection was, what it is that you're basically that I'm just saying, I there's something going on, and I feel disconnected. And when I ask you that, for that moment when we have that conversation about your work schedule and how I really wish you were home earlier and whatever, I feel like we're we're connected because we're having a maybe not a lovely conversation, but we're you're responding to me. There's a a now a tie between us, we're doing something right, right? Okay. Um, would it feel different for you if you if you believe that the person who is asking is feeling some sort of like turmoil in their body, not caused by you, it's not caused by your by your work schedule, where they're feeling disconnected and they want to feel connected. And this is a way that makes them feel connected.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

But then that also can be interpreted to me as it's me. Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

And not which is why we have to talk about it, which is why we have to negotiate, which is why you have to say to me, if I'm an anxious person, look, I get that that's you know, that causes anxiousness for you, and this is helping you connect. Um, let me share how it lands for me. I'm feeling like I'm not doing a good enough job, like I'm not there for you when I need to be there for you. And I, you know, there's and I don't know what to do about it because I gotta work and this is my schedule.

SPEAKER_05 42:59

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

Right. So it's again learning to be able to have those conversations where we hear each other and we find some, and it doesn't always work. Sometimes you can't find a middle ground, right?

SPEAKER_05 43:11

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

But but being heard and being seen on both sides without judgment is how we how we get to a place where we can kind of solve that.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Okay. So okay, are we Shelby? Yeah, I love that. I want to hear what Shelby has to say.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this I have a lot of input. So me being a more anxious person, which I have been, like, I've worked a lot on myself and patterns as well to not be an anxious person. I just feel like I lie more to that side. But I also kind of do feel like I have a couple avoidant tendencies because like, but I feel like it's more because of my past, because I feel like for one, my past, like every time that an ex have got distant on me, they've ended the relationship. So I feel like that has caused me to be an anxious, like more attacher just because every time they get distant, then I'm like, is everything.

SPEAKER_04 44:11

You've seen you've seen a you've seen a pattern. Your brain's seeing a pattern. It's like, oh, I'm what happens next.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Yeah, exactly. My nervous system is like, oh no, they're gonna leave, they're gonna abandon me because this is always what happens.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

But yeah, this is what happens. So I have a question for you. Um, because this goes to another point. Thank you for the segue. Um do you ever find yourself when you feel like they're kind of distancing that you then distance? Because it's kind of a protective mechanism for you. You're like, well, I'm gonna get there first. Like I'm gonna keep myself safe by distancing from you because you're distancing from me.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Recently I have. Um, not that I've been dating much recently, but like just in my everyday relationships, I feel like because I had instance with like a friend, a really close friend that we um have parted ways since. And I feel like I don't know if that's the best example, but it's my most recent example is she got really distant. And so, yes, I did get distant back because I was like, oh no, I've been here before. I want to protect myself and I'm trying to change patterns in my life. My relationships. Um, really trying to.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Is that is it like you figure it you you look at it as a red flag, basically?

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Oh yeah, definitely. But I'm not like what you were talking about, where every day I'm like, oh, are we okay? Like I'm not I'm definitely not like that. I'm only when they get distant, which normally happens. I'm around the two, three month mark complete. And if they don't reply for like two days, then I'm like texting. But I usually like like you try to, I've learned better communication words to use where I'm not just like, oh, are we all right? Like, is everything okay? Like I'm just like, hey, I want to talk. Like, you know, maybe we can sort this out because like I feel like you're being distant, and I just want to make sure that like, you know, you're okay, we're okay. But like I've I've more worded it, like, you're I hope you're okay as well, because I haven't heard from you, you know.

SPEAKER_04 46:04

But that's well, that's also an interesting strategy, right? Because that kind of goes into my you are like my little lovely assistant today.

SPEAKER_05 46:14

I'm glad to be a survey.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

So that is kind of like a surveillance strategy, like our behavior is surveilling. So it could look like asking roundabout questions like that to kind of test the waters on how we are, instead of just saying, Are we okay? Like, are you okay? Yeah, because waiting for some kind of information so that you can put this piece together, the story together about whether or not we are okay, right? It can look like looking at their phone, zoom, you know, looking at what's going on in their socials, um, looking at their location to try to make a story in your head about whether or not we are making a story in your head.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

That's what it's like.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

I feel like for me though, I'm oh sorry if you go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

No, no, I was gonna I was just gonna say that's that's uh that's what I figure people do sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

But that's is just make the story in their head and make it very difficult to uh not not so much as talk them down or or anything like that, but to make them understand that things are good. You know what I mean? Because that what you basically, what you what you basically started in your head, you know, could be very uh uh offensive to me, you know. Yeah, of course. To the point where it's kind of like the the one thing that I hate, let me tell you one thing. I'm we're ready to get tired up.

SPEAKER_05 47:44

Hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Uh uh, wait a minute before I go there. Bad uh bad behaviors are easier to get stuck in. That's what Ken Ken can just say.

SPEAKER_04 47:52

100%.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:54

Usually because they're do they're giving you something back. That your brain's like, oh, well, that worked. Well, let's keep doing that.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Right? No, but the the the thing that I hate the most is that when I have a conversation with you and everything is okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

For you or for me?

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Well, at the time, it's for them.

SPEAKER_04 48:25

How do you know?

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Because they they said it was okay. Okay, but when actually in reality, it's not okay. Because it comes back up. And and the one thing that I I can't stand when someone uh conjures a certain uh uh uh story in the head, and it bothers me, especially when it's not true, and you're trying to tell me something that I know that's not true, I get heated from that. And that escalates. You see how my voice is getting up now? I didn't know this.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

It's in your face, the ears are turning red.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

One of the things I cannot stand is me knowing that I'm telling you the truth, and then you're making it seem like it's it's not the truth, or I'm I'm lying to you, or or you know what I'm saying, even when you have the facts, you know, and the one thing that I don't ever want to have to do, especially in a relationship, to always have to give, you know, uh here, prove it to you, here, see? You know what I mean? Uh this, this, this, see, you know, and then after a while, it's gonna be to a point where I'm gonna be so tired of that to the point where I'm like, you know, she ain't gonna believe me anyway, and it's not worth it. Yeah, you know what I mean? It it and it it it escalates, you know what I'm saying? So and I'm not I'm sure I'm not the only one, you know. Guys, y'all out there, help me out, talk to me. I know I ain't the only one. So the ladies in the house.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

What I'm hearing now in my mind is I have to make it my personal mission to help fuel not attract anxious people. What work can we do?

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Help me not attract that. No, I I think mostly any any any relationship I've been in has been that way.

SPEAKER_04 50:13

Yes. Yes, I understand because you're magnet, you're a magnet to those who just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

What'd you say, Shelb?

SPEAKER_00 50:22

Well, for me, it's been the opposite. I attract avoidance. But I do think that, you know, I've I have a play in it, of course, but I don't know why I attract avoidant men because I feel like it's part what I was gonna say is my communication, yeah, is like the hardest thing because we're all like an interpreting it in a different way of what we're trying to get across. And I feel like that's my biggest problem because like saying, like, I hope you're okay. I'm like generally like, I hope something didn't happen to them, you know. Like I really like care. But then like they're taking it, like you said, Glenda, about like, oh, she's just like checking in on me and like wants, you know, she's they take it a different way. But I feel like it's a little my past of growing up in like a dysfunctional family is like I was scared to speak up. And so now I feel like that's where my avoidant tendencies come up. Glenda is where I like I'm scared to have that conversation. I'm scared to communicate in a hard conversation, and I feel like that's where like it's hard for me.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

Yeah, it's hard for a lot of people, but uh at the end of the day, um, you are living based on what you believe is happening versus what you like is actually happening, right? So it's hard either way. It's like pick your heart. Do you want do you want to know, or do you want to go off of a vision that you have in your mind, right? Oh my gosh, we are getting so close to time, and I've got so much more to say. Uh he has still has questions. We should have made this a part one, part two. Um, didn't I say we could do this for the next 20 years and we would be okay? We still can. Do you still have questions on that little segment, or do you want to go into some of the tools that the anxious person might be able to have questions on that?

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Okay, let's go. Let's go. Okay. Uh what's what's I don't know if I say this right. What's one lie anxiety tells everyone?

SPEAKER_04 52:14

Say that again, Field. What's one lie anxiety tells everyone? Um, it's you're not safe. This isn't safe, you're not safe. That's really at the end of the day, that's what it is. There's an underlying, I'm not safe, something bad's gonna happen. This is not, you know, um it's some version of that.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Yeah, I'd like to add that I feel like safety is a big thing for an anxious person, and that's why you know we do what we do in order to make ourselves feel safe, but it's not making the other person feel safe.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

So what so how does it become a choice instead of a symptom?

SPEAKER_04 52:59

Anxiety?

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Yeah, like well, just just self-sabotage.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

Oh, the self-sabotage. Well, kind of going back to what we said before. I mean, I I I I honestly believe that people are not out there saying they want I want anxiety because it's gonna get me what I want. I like I I don't I don't think that that's what's happening in the world.

SPEAKER_05 53:23

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 53:24

But what I think happens is we we try strategies to calm our anxiety, whether that's be, you know, hey, are we okay, or let's get in a fight about something stupid so that I know that we're connected, whatever it is, we we're doing things to feel safer, to feel connected. Um and then that becomes kind of just a habit because our subconscious is like, well, you did this and then that happened and that was good.

SPEAKER_05 53:53

Right.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

Oh, oh, that's available to you. Let's do that. You did this and then that happened and it was good. And so it becomes just what's the easiest thing. Our our our mind wants to our mind always wants to conserve energy. So if it can find something that you've done before that worked, it's going there before it comes up with something new. Gotcha. So I I don't think we intentionally go out and say, like, oh, let's go figure out how to get anxiety so that I can get all the things that I want. I don't right. That's that's I think that's ridiculous. But but we get in that habit. We get in that because it worked.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

You know?

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Okay. Okay. All right. We can go to the next one. He cracks me up.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Okay. Yeah, but we're at time, and he's like, We can go to the next one.

SPEAKER_04 54:40

Okay, so let's talk about some tools. And we can always come back and revisit these things because it's